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Economic Impact

To keep you informed and stimulate your thinking, Stéfane Marion and Denis Girouard take a look at economic news and share their perspectives in our monthly informative videos.

Hello everyone, welcome to Economic Impact. Today is November 20th, 2024, and as usual I am with our chief economist Stéfane Marion. Stéfane, we had an election in United States.

Yeah, it's been a shock for many people, many sectors, but for financial markets, Denis, I have to tell you it's been positive so far. And as you look at the year so far, year to date, we're looking at positive returns for every asset class. And you know what? Despite the fact that the stock market has done particularly well this year in the US, Canada too and last year, investors now believe that next year could be yet another banner year.

Wow! Can we say the same thing for across the world? Is it the same situation? Are we seeing the same results?

No breadth is not that great Denis when you when you think about it because the reality is that—there's a lot of numbers on this slide, but bear with me—if it's green, these markets reach a new all time high in November. There's only three markets in the world that did that, the US, Canada and Hungary. So not everyone wins in this new political or geopolitical environment.

And since the election of Mr. Trump, price earning are still at the top, at the highest.

Well, the reason the US is as high as it is right now, it's been driven by multiple expansions. So forward P ratios are now trading at 23 times forward earnings. Denis, if you look prior to the COVID pandemic, when earnings normally surged during a recession, you have to go back to 1999 to see earnings or price the valuation on the stock market as high as what we have right now. And, and notice that the valuation on U.S. stock market is 35% higher than it was when Mr. Trump first won his election in 2016. So there's a lot of good growth expectations already built in the current valuations.

And at the same time, we're observing shift into yield curve, major shift in the yield curve.

This is where I'll need you to help me because you used to be a fixed income specialist and you still are, but you are actively involved in terms of trading. So what we're seeing right now, what's helping fuel the rally in financial markets is the fact that the yield curve, which had been inverted for two years. And remember, you and I exchanged a lot of times on that saying an inverted yield curve is not a good sign for the economy. Well, guess what? The inversion has disappeared. And now people are saying, wow, if the yield curve inversion has disappeared, therefore the economy can only do better in the months ahead.

Yeah. What's quite interesting that we're seeing a yield curve, you know, shifting upward while we're seeing rates going down, and we don't see that very often in the cycle.

No. So it's a yield curve. You know, it's a steepening, but it's a bear steepener.

That's getting complicated.

It's complicated, but it's most important. Because if you calibrate your model on just the shape of the yield curve, you say, OK, it's steepening, it's good for the economy is one thing. But what's happening right now, it's steepening, but I can't calibrate a model for something I've never seen. So what I'm trying to say here is that yes, rates are coming down at the short end of the curve. The feds already reduced the Fed funds rate by 75 basis points. But long-term rates, 10 year treasury yields, are up 79 basis points. So this type of bear steepener, Denis, has not been observed in over 30 years. Since the Fed started targeting the Fed funds rate, this is the first time it happens when the Fed starts cutting rates. So most unusual.

But what's kind of weird also is that the government, U.S. government are going for, you know, probably one of the biggest deficits ever and we're seeing the yield curve going down. In fact, shifting U and treasury Fed fund going down, that's weird.

There's a malaise here that seems to be explained by the fact that the 10 year treasury yield is moving higher because people are concerned now because with the level of government debt in US. So unless the US is able to significantly reduce its spending, what we're looking at for the next few years is that the US debt to GDP ratio will exceed the previous high, which was reached after... well at the end of World War 2 when the US was financing a global war. So we are in unchartered territory. Hence the movement of the yield curve that is most uncanny.

Despite all of that P/E are high, yield curve is shifting up, Fed funds are going down. People are still expecting good results or good performance for the coming year. So people are looking at the yield curve with not necessarily the same amount of details that we should speak to, you know, is it a bear or bull steepener? So you're absolutely right. What's driving the market right now? It's a steepening of the yield curve, as simple as that. And yes, every region of the world is expected to benefit from the new economic policies that will be unveiled by Washington in the quarters ahead. So anyway, Denis, when you look at this, every region of the world is expected to be up next year. So I'm not sure everyone wins in a new political or geopolitical environment, but these are the expectations as we speak.

There's a lot of positive on the market right now.

There's a lot of positive on the market right now.

There's a lot of good news already priced in the market.

But the bond market is getting a little bit more suspicious.

OK, let's come back to Canada and talk about the, you know, what's going on in our own country in terms of unemployment.

So I'm going to tell you why we have a weak currency, right? So the reality is we have a big divergence in terms of economic performance with the unemployment rate for people age 25 to 54, which is your biggest consumer base if you want, at over 5.5% in Canada, whereas the US it's at closer to 3.5%. So this massive divergence, Denis, brings that if the economy is not performing, obviously monetary policy can diverge between the two countries.

Yeah, that does mean lower Canadian rate but lower Canadian dollar.

So the way your forecast models work, when you do your currency forecasts, if you have an historical, it's a near historical spread. Well, I won't say historical, but the highest since 1997. This divergence between monetary policy between two countries is likely to be sustained for longer because of the behavior of the unemployment rate which brings about a cheaper currency. So we're at 1.41 to buy U.S. dollar. Well, we might have to pay 1.45 in the months ahead according to our model if those interest rate differentials prevail for a little bit longer, which I believe they will just because of where the economy is relative to the US. So a lot of moving parts Denis.

Well, you have a lot to say today, OK, What kind of conclusion we can come with?

Well, the conclusion is it's even difficult to know precisely with precision where you are in the cycle because the US keeps on pushing more fiscal stimulus despite the fact that the unemployment rate is low. And with the yield curve that is starting to steepen right now and in bear steepener mode, we will see what happens in the months ahead, particularly that the stock market is not cheap in the US. So if long term rates move higher because people are concerned about fiscal policy, that might be an issue. Denis, I would also say, you know, not everyone will win in the new economic regime, but the market seems to be positioned that everyone wins. So I'm a little bit more skeptical on that one. I know that people are—there's a lot of hype that AI could boost productivity and that's fine by me, I have no issues with that. But down the road, we have to be, you have to be consistent with economic theory. If I want to do more AI, more robotics, I need more electricity and electricity costs are becoming a concern at this point in time. So by at large, Denis, it's a structural change. The selection will bring about structural change. Deregulation, tax cuts will be good for corporate earnings. But there are other concerns, particularly what happens with this steepening of the yield curve. So the message here today. So let's just be prepared to live with market fluctuations in a month ahead. There will be volatility, the market will find a direction. But I'm not sure that it's a one way bet that everything goes up next year.

And once again, let's be careful.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you, Stéfane, for being with us today. Hopefully, it's gonna help you in your investment, you know, assets and everything, portfolio management. We'll see you in December. Thank you for being with us.

Property Perspective

Our National Bank specialists decode the latest trends in the real estate market, including interest rates, the resale market and forecasts for the coming months.

Hello everyone, and welcome to the September 25th edition of Property Perspective. Today I have the pleasure to be with Matthieu Arseneau.

Hi Simon.

Hello Matthieu.

And with Veronique Corriveau, hello Veronique. Our topic of the day real estate and estate planning. But before we go into that interesting discussion with Veronique, um, let's talk with Matthieu about recent economic news that influence the real estate market. Matthieu, while the Bank of Canada slowly lowered its policy rate over the summer, announcing cuts of 25 basis points, the Federal Reserve, I believe, surprised the economist by announcing a cut of no less than 50 basis points in the first announcement in September. What pace of cut can we expect from the Bank of Canada now that the Fed has entered the dance. 

Yes, Simon that was a surprising one to that the Fed is going with the 50 basis point with the start of. So in this easing cycle that we are getting into, clearly it opens the door for the Bank of Canada to do more. If the if the Fed hadn't declined rates, it can have an impact when you decline rates on currency, pushing it down and ultimately lead to inflation. So when both central banks are going in the same direction, there's no impact on that front. And that opened the door for the Bank of Canada to go ahead perhaps with and I hope will be inspired by that kind of move. So increasing maybe 50 basis point cuts in the next meeting. Let's hope they will go in that direction. Clearly when we are looking at the inflation data a big milestone in August with the data that came out inflation at 2% on an annual basis, that's the goal of the Central Bank. So that was really good news. And if you exclude mortgage interest costs, we know the Central Bank is mainly responsible of that increase for that component. So if you exclude that component, we are only 1.2%. So for us clearly rates at those restrictive levels, it's not a good idea in the short term and they should decline rates faster over the next couple of meetings to bring back inflation rates much more neutral in the coming months.

Finally good news.

Good news on interest rate front, yeah.

Matthieu, we saw that controlling inflation has not come without economic cost, as evidenced by the rising unemployment rate. How do you assess the economic health of the labour market recently?

Exactly. It's not magic. Inflation has moderated because there's economic weakness. And when we look at the unemployment rate, in fact, it continued to increase during the summer and it's now at 6.6%. Not that high on historical basis, but still higher than it was prior to the pandemic. But there's not that much layoff at this point. It's much more hiring freeze on the macro perspective with corporations not hiring and a big increase in population. So as a result, it's the segment of population who tried to enter the labour market that are the most impacted at this point. If we look at the unemployment rate for people at the younger ones and recent immigrants, in fact, the cumulative increase since 2022 is as large as what we experienced during the global financial crisis of 2008, 2009. So for those segments of population is comparable to a recession at this point. So, and my concern Simon is the fact that job vacancy rates so are declining very fast. So that does not bode well for hiring in the coming months. In fact, it's the lowest since 2016, 2017 for those segments of population. So it's a, it's a warning for the Central Bank. Perhaps interest rates at those current levels are too high for the health of the labour market. As I recall unemployment rate at 6.6%, that was the level back in 2017 and rates were at 0.5% versus 4.25% at this point. So yes, I'm not saying that they should go there, but perhaps between 2.5% and 3%, very soon, that could be a good idea so we won't have too much damage on the labour market.

OK, remains to be seen. Matthieu, last question, what do you think of the government's latest announcement about raising the ceiling of insured mortgages from $1M to $1.5M and also giving first time buyers the option of repaying their loans over 30 years versus 25 years? Is it a good solution to the affordability challenges? We discussed a lot this affordability challenge over the past few months. For the first measure, the increase of the ceiling, we won't we don't expect that much impact because most of the transactions are way below this this threshold. So that's for this measure. For the other one, that could have material impact on the market, we made some calculations, and you can see the amounts are a bit different depending on the province, but just a general picture. For the same house, in fact, if you increase the amortization from 25 to 30 years, you have a decline of payment of 9% on a monthly basis. And if you maintain the same, the same payment, you can buy a house 10% higher in terms of price. So that gives you a leeway. But the big question here is, is it more affordable when you pay your mortgage for a longer period? So that's the first question. And if this option became very popular at some point, there could be an adjustment in prices given this increase in purchasing power of first-time home buyers and it will reverse the initial intentions. So that's, that's the tricky part. No evident solution with that kind of measure.

Alright Matthieu, thank you very much for your very, as usual, interesting comments. Thank you. Let's now discuss with Veronique, hello Veronique.

Hello.

About the real estate as part of the estate planning process, many of us put off these important decisions thinking that they are either too complex or not necessary. Yet when the time comes, navigating the legal and also emotional aspect of passing down property down can feel overwhelming. Veronique, a notary of extensive experience is here to shed light on the basics and help us take the first step toward thoughtful thinking. To start, can you please explain why having a will is so important, especially when real estate is involved?

Yeah, it's important to have a will to ensure that we do not leave our wishes to chance. Having a will allows the testator to decide for himself who will inherit his property and to choose the person or the people who will administrate the property in the process of liquidating an estate. For example, in the case of common law partners, if you die without a will, your partner could find himself co-owner of the building with your legal heirs. It's not perfect.

You could say that. Véronique, one of the key aspects of estate planning is the transfer, obviously, of ownership after someone passes away. Can you quickly walk us through the process of transferring real estate ownership from a deceased person to their heirs?

When you inherit real estate, the liquidator of the estate must transfer the title of the property. This is what we call in legal language the "declaration of transmission". By this act, the succession transfers the property right to the heirs, so the new owner of the building. It is a myth that we often have to deconstruct that the transfer does not take place automatically in the will. This act formalizes everything.

OK. Finally, Véronique, what specific considerations should heirs be aware of when inheriting real estate are there some challenges, pitfalls that they should be prepared for?

I can give you some examples. We can think of the co-ownership of real estate. For example, in this situation we should think about how they will administer the property together. Sometimes we can see some family dynamics in this kind of situation. We can also think of bequests of a building to minor children. If the bequest was made with or without a protection mechanism. This situation can complicate the administration of the child's property, and we have to think for the tax aspect too. It can bring us for example, a lack of liquidity when we put heirs in an unknown situation for the for the taxes.

You're right, so important to consider. So thank you Véronique for sharing your insights today. Estate planning, especially when it involves a real estate as we just saw, can be overwhelming at times. But as we discussed, taking the time to plan ahead can make a world of difference for your loved ones. We hope today's conversation has helped clarify the process of estate planning and real estate transfers and don't hesitate to discuss that important topic with your advisor. So thank you all for watching and see you in the next weeks for your next edition of Property Perspective. Thank you.

5 • 4 • 3 Market Outlook

5 minutes, 4 graphs, 3 key takeaways! Discover a fresh focused quarterly review of markets, the economy and investments with expert Louis Lajoie from our CIO Office.

Hello, everyone. Today is September 10. We're going to take stock of how the markets and the economy have evolved over the last few months and what that likely means for what's to come. So if we begin by looking at how the equity market has behaved year to date. We remember that in Q1, we had a very substantial upsurge in equity markets, followed by in Q2 a somewhat more hesitant price action. And in Q3, so far, it has been much more volatile, although equity markets remain largely positive year to date. But what's new here is that bonds have actually been doing some catch up against the rest of the market, now actually even above what cash has returned year today. So as you can see, the race is tightening across asset classes.

And the key factor behind that is actually what we've been talking about for some time, a further slowdown in the labour market, featuring an increase in the unemployment rates, which to be clear remains far from being dramatic, just barely above 4%. But what's more worrisome is that historically, whenever the unemployment rate begins to rise, it usually keeps on rising, especially when we reach a certain threshold, which we did, and reaching above the Sahm rule, which is a recession indicator that's never been mistaken since the 1950s.

Now, I want to be clear: the U.S. economy is still too strong to be deemed in a recession. But what's equally clear is that the warning signal has been heard at the Fed. And indeed, we've seen markets review their rates expectation accordingly much lower and indeed, in all likelihood will see a first rate cut by the U.S. Federal Reserve this month. Now, if we know that now that the Fed's about to begin cutting rates, the follow up questions is where is it going to stop? And right now, markets expect the Fed to stop somewhere in the neutral range, which is totally reasonable against the current backdrop. But bear in mind that if we were to base our expectations simply on the average response from the Fed following a similar rise in the unemployment rate, we would instead be talking about a policy rate that could be close to 2%. That is essentially where it was just before the pandemic. And I want to be clear again, we're not there yet. That's not the base case here. But we should expect rate expectations to move quite a bit over the coming in the coming few months.

If we do the exact same or similar actually exercise with how the equity markets have fared around previous rises in the unemployment rate, what we see is that on average, stocks were already on the downtrend, a downtrend that typically continues for a few more months only to see stocks bounce back and finish the year positive, as you can see here. And obviously that's not the exact path that current markets are following. Stocks are actually on an uptrend this time around. And it's not all that surprising either that we're not following that pattern to the letter, knowing that there's a wide range of historical path behind that average featuring, for instance, both an increase and a drop of nearly 40% at some time. So I guess both optimists and pessimists can conclude what they want here. But in their mind, this all boils down to a backdrop in the near term that's probably more fragile for stocks, without necessarily meaning that this story will end up with losses over a one-year horizon. Hence why it will be important for investors to stay the course in the face of inevitable ups and downs that are ahead of us.

To conclude, so as I said earlier, the overall picture is a rather positive one for markets and especially so for bonds with the last quarter that, you know, recoup some of their losses or actually lost ground against the rest of the market. Even now beating cash in the face of an increase in unemployment rate, which has confirmed that the Fed is about to cut its policy rate as we have seen elsewhere in the world, including here in Canada. And for investors, it likely means a volatile year end. But the good news here is that with inflation now taking the backseat – note that I didn't talk about inflation, I believe that's a first –, we can better rely on bonds to play their diversification role should the economic backdrop deteriorate further.

That's it for today. Thank you for listening and we will talk again in December.

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